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Feb 27, 2006, 08:05 PM // 20:05
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#1 |
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Lion's Arch Merchant
Join Date: Feb 2006
Guild: Gryffindor
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High Level MM Build - Advice
Which of these builds would be better?
Attributes (both the same) Blood Magic 9 Death Magic 16 Soul Reaping 10 Healing 7 Vampiric Gaze Rotting Flesh Bone Fiend's Bone Horror's Verata's Sacrifice Heal Area Rebirth Offering of Blood OR Awaken the Blood Bone Fiend's Bone Horror's Blood of the Master Verata's Sacrifice Heal Area Rebirth Offering of Blood Did my first succesfull Tombs run the other day, and was quite fun. I did get a comment saying I had to work on my build a bit, but not sure what was meant, as it was quite succesfull. Anyway - any advice? Oh and in case your wondering why I'm bringing Rotting Flesh in the first build - I played through the entire game as a Blood Necro pretty much, and this skill is VERY effective, did help in tombs with worms, etc. - or should I not worry about dealing any additional damage or degen? Thanks! **Changed Verata's Aura to Sacrifice, since that's what I meant anyway... Last edited by MasterThrawn; Feb 27, 2006 at 10:31 PM // 22:31.. |
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Feb 27, 2006, 08:33 PM // 20:33
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#2 |
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Frost Gate Guardian
Join Date: Jun 2005
Guild: Crystal Mansion [CM]
Profession: W/
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IMO: A good MM in tombs has at least 10-15 horrors/fiends up all the time. This creates 2 walls of defense for your team while dealing steady damage.
1. To keep a steady supply of horrors/fiends, you need to constantly make horrors & fiends during a battle because Lvl 18 horrors/fiends still die fast. If you're spending your energy on blood skills during the battle, corpses probably aren't being used efficiently. 2. To keep a large number of horrors/fiends alive while traveling to the next mob area, heal area is not sufficient. I consider any primary MM without Blood of the Master AND Verata's Sacrifice to be very ineffective. 3. A good MM should not die often. If the MM dies, it's usually because defenses were depleted after minions died. Verata's Aura is a waste of a skill slot in Tombs. 4. If you want to deal damage other than that of your minions, bring Spiteful Spirit and Suffering. These skills do not need to be spammed often, saving your energy for raising horrors and fiends. 5. It makes more sense for an Orders necro to bring Blood Ritual [edit]. When I'm MM for Tombs, I use the following: Animate Fiends Animate Horrors Blood of the Master (large heal for minions) Verata's Sacrifice (counter minion degen) Rebirth Spiteful Spirit (direct damage to entire mobs) Suffering (degen entire mobs) Enfeebling Blood (weaken mobs so minions last longer) 16 death, 10 soul, 10 curses Last edited by PrincessKyra; Mar 02, 2006 at 07:17 PM // 19:17.. |
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Feb 27, 2006, 09:35 PM // 21:35
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#3 |
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Lion's Arch Merchant
Join Date: Jan 2006
Location: dallas
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I agree with PrincessKyra, on most of it atleast. I bring majority of what was said with the exception of Suffering and Enfeebling Blood (but may have to try those out).
But I bring Heal Area and Death Nova instead of Suffering and Enfeebling Blood. Heal Area is just used for time between BotM and VS. The main time I use SS is when we travel from mob to mob and at beginning of levels. I use Death Nova just to watch bombs blow up. 
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Feb 27, 2006, 10:24 PM // 22:24
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#4 |
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Lion's Arch Merchant
Join Date: Feb 2006
Guild: Gryffindor
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Hmm - Enfeebling Blood - did not think of that one as being an MM skill, but that sounds interesting - now I would like to bring SS, but everyone was telling me Offering of Blood is what all the "good" MM's bring, in case they need energy... I'll have to try out some of these variations - oh and I meant Verata's Sacrifice in my build (always get those mixed up). Thanks for the tips!
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Feb 27, 2006, 10:25 PM // 22:25
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#5 |
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Lion's Arch Merchant
Join Date: Feb 2006
Guild: Gryffindor
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Hmm - Enfeebling Blood - did not think of that one as being an MM skill, but that sounds interesting - now I would like to bring SS, but everyone was telling me Offering of Blood is what all the "good" MM's bring, in case they need energy... I'll have to try out some of these variations - oh and I meant Verata's Sacrifice in my build (always get those mixed up). Thanks for the tips!
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Feb 27, 2006, 10:26 PM // 22:26
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#6 |
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Frost Gate Guardian
Join Date: Feb 2006
Profession: N/Me
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I agree with using verata's sac + blood of master for healing.
First of all energy management - The elite skill Offering of Blood allows you to regain energy at the cost of some health. However this required points to be put into Blood Magic, and may leave you spred too thin. N/E can use Glyph of Lesser Energy to reduce cost of spells by 15 energy. The elite Glyph of Energy reduces energy cost by 20 (15 sec recharge). The more points you can put into soul reaping the better. I find that using curses often leaves me with not enough energy to instantly raise a fiend. I vary this according to party and mission type. Extra damage - Taking Spiteful Spirit means you cannot use Offering of Blood as they are both elite. Mark of Pain can substitute if you choose this route. Putting points into Curses and Blood may mean your points are spread too thin, and may be better not to use Offering of Blood for this purpose. Weaken armor reduces enemies armor against physical attacks Protecting your army - Shadow of fear slows down the number of attacks. Enfeebling blood - as discussed previously. Fast Casting - N/Me can use echo to quickly raise an army assuming you have enough energy. Items such as Morgriffs Scepter offer half skill recharge and casting. Remember also items such as the Rockmolder, only the damage is linked to another profession, you will still get the skill recharge bonus. Bloodstained boots to reduce casting time of spells targetting corpses. |
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Feb 28, 2006, 01:41 PM // 13:41
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#7 |
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Lion's Arch Merchant
Join Date: Jan 2006
Location: dallas
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mark of pain will produce a scatter. I would NOT recommend bringing that.
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Feb 28, 2006, 05:10 PM // 17:10
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#8 |
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Forge Runner
Join Date: Jun 2005
Location: Inside
Guild: Fifteen Over Fifty [Rare]
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How did you get 10 in soul reaping? Are you running a Major and a Superior?
If you want to do this right, you MUST run N/Mo or N/R. Nothing else can run anything close in the later stages of the game. You are there to run Death/Minions, not Curses/Hexes. Believe me, minions are a full time job. A common mistake is trying to do too much and doing nothing well. If your team needs Curses and MM, then take two necros. And for the eight-hundredth time, Bloodstained Boots don't work! (currently) The following build can easily reach 30-40 minions and I have peaked about double (75+) that in actual combat. Try this out: Blood: 9 Death: 16 Soul: 9 Healing: 7 Vampiric Gaze Offering of Blood Horrors Fiends Verata's Sacrifice Blood of the Master Heal Area Vengeance! |
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Feb 28, 2006, 05:35 PM // 17:35
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#9 |
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Krytan Explorer
Join Date: Dec 2005
Profession: Mo/
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Man, I'm beginning to loathe Minion Masters that use N/Mo...it seems to send the message to everyone else in the world that N/Mo is the only MM format. Frankly, I think it sucks. Here's what I use in my N/E build:
Slot 1: Animate Horror Slot 2: Animate Fiend Slot 3: Blood of the Master Slot 4: Verata Sacrifice Slot 5: Glyph of Renewal Slot 6: Death Nova Slot 7: Blood Ritual Slot 8: Res sig (bring it or die) My attributes are: Death: 16 (sup rune + scar patch) Soul Reaping: 13 (with minor rune) Blood Magic: 4 (with minor rune) This is a no BS build that doesn't sacrifice points in Death Magic or Soul Reaping to put points in healing prayers to power Heal Area - a sacrifice I consider too great. If I want heal area, that means I either have weaker minions (very bad) or less energy returned through Soul Reaping, causing me to be unable to cast minions when the bodies are available (also very bad). Blood ritual still gives 10 seconds at level 4. In a place like the UW in the b/p teams, you can kiss your minions goodbye anyways - heal area won't help them any more than BotM can. The best way to heal them is to use Glyph of Renewal with Verata's sacrifice - might help them take another hit or two. The one thing I hate about Heal Area more than anything else is that if you get a chance to safely get up beside a group of minions beating up say, a boss for example, and they're dying, you can't heal them with heal area without healing the boss as well. Use BotM - if your monk(s) can't heal your sacrificing, you're all boned (no pun intended) anyways. -Jessyi |
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Feb 28, 2006, 06:47 PM // 18:47
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#10 | ||||||
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Forge Runner
Join Date: Jun 2005
Location: Inside
Guild: Fifteen Over Fifty [Rare]
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Quote:
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You are missing the point of HA. It lets you chain your minion *sacrifices* faster and longer. VS -> BotM -> HA -> BotM -> HA -> BotM -> OoB -> HA -> .... It basically DOUBLES the power of BotM and self-heals you in the process. Win-Win! Quote:
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Minions degen at one pip/20 seconds, so Verata's Sacrifice buys you 3m:20s per minion regardless of Glyph of Renewal. For the first 3 minutes, you can easily heal any degen due to gaps in VS coverage. (stage 1) From 3:20-6:40, they are degening anyway. (stage 2) And after 6m:40s they are at full degen even with VS. (stage 3) For the second stage, when they are degening, a (self)Healing necro is stronger, because he can out heal the degen and send fully healed minions into battle. Your build sacrifices your elite slot, and a ton of attribute points in SR just so you can keep VS up (less than) 10 extra seconds. Is one extra energy / death worth 13 attribute points? Is two extra energy / death worth 25 attribute points? Is three extra energy / death worth 36 attribute points? Is four extra energy / death worth 46 attribute points? Those upper SR points are costly and go a long way in other skill lines. |
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Feb 28, 2006, 07:59 PM // 19:59
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#11 |
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Lion's Arch Merchant
Join Date: Jan 2006
Location: dallas
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man can't we all just get along?
I run a N/M MM/SS with a B/P group I know my minons are not going to last long. I mean with the worms and the huge groups, the minions are suppose to take the aggro. So I do a mix of both of your builds. I do use heal area just like Dragonblood states, it helps when you move from group to group. And I do use Death Nova. Reason for this is because I know they are going to die, why not do another 105 dmg and poison. I do not carry Blood Ritual because that is what the orders necro is for. But I do carry SS. For the beginning of each of the maps and for when my wall of minions is set up. During most of the fights my spell recharge can't keep up and I have 20/20 cesta and 20 truncheon. Everyone has their own ways of doing things. I don't think one way is better than the other just people's preference. Once my minions start attacking there is no way VS is going to keep them alive and I am not going to start running around naked with scars so I don't want to stand right next to them casting BoTM. But I usually keep up at least 15 or so minions for each attack. At some points I even wonder if B/Ps are needed. 
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Feb 28, 2006, 08:05 PM // 20:05
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#12 |
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Frost Gate Guardian
Join Date: Jan 2006
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The only real justification i see for N/Mo for a MM is Rebirth. If things happen to go badly it can help get your team back from situations where res sig wouldnt do the trick. Of course this doesnt happen very often, but if you're running all other skills necro its not a bad idea.
I dont really see why other mms seem so concerned with energy. In the heat of battle soul reaping always keeps me going. The only time i may run out of energy is making minions after the battle, but then there's really no hurry and usually not many corpses left anyway. I find Life Transfer to be a handy elite to have. It does some decent damage if there dont happen to be any bodies around, and it makes for a decent heal if your monk is otherwise occupied. Not really a must have, but it can be handy. I usually run something like this: Death: 16 Blood/Wilderness: 9 Soul Reaping 10 Life Transfer Death Nova/ Winnowing Dark Bond/ Healing Spring/ Serpents Q Blood of the Master V Sac Horrors Fiends Res Sig/Rebirth obviously i dont bring ranger skills in a b/p group, but for random pickup groups for missions and such winnowing can be quite useful and healing springs is a nice addition if you dont have anything better to do. |
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Feb 28, 2006, 10:06 PM // 22:06
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#13 | ||
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Forge Runner
Join Date: Jun 2005
Location: Inside
Guild: Fifteen Over Fifty [Rare]
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Quote:
All I can say is that N/E is the W/Mo of necromancers! That doesn't mean all N/E are noobs, but the vast majority of noob-necromancers are N/E. Precisely for the VS+GoR combo. All I can say is to keep an open mind, and try out some of the other secondaries. The reason N/Mo is so popular is not because it's a cookie cutter, it's because it is THAT strong. Quote:
Rebirth is good if you've LOST the battle and need to regroup. And by definition, if the MM is still alive, the battle's not lost. Vengeance is good if you're still contesting the battle. It's a battle rez! And honestly, as MM, I'm NOT LEAVING the battle. I really can't disengage my minions anyway, so I'll stay and do what I can to win. If I fall, the monks better be already outside the room. It's renewable. It's only a 4 second rez. It doesn't consume all your energy. The target is rez'd at FULL health and FULL energy. If the target dies (for any reason) while under Vengeance, there is no DP incurred. The MM get two bodies out of it. Last edited by Carinae; Feb 28, 2006 at 10:08 PM // 22:08.. |
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Feb 28, 2006, 10:43 PM // 22:43
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#14 |
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Jungle Guide
Join Date: Jul 2005
Location: Right behind you.
Guild: HeRo
Profession: W/Rt
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is Verata's Sacrific and Heal Area enough? Is it really necessary to have Blood of the Master to create a big army? My nec is only lvl 10, but I already have Veratas and Heal Area and it seems to do okay. I'm hoping this will improve as my minions gain a higher level with more hp. Is there another alternative to Blood of the Master?
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Feb 28, 2006, 11:08 PM // 23:08
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#15 |
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Forge Runner
Join Date: Jun 2005
Location: Inside
Guild: Fifteen Over Fifty [Rare]
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It's more critical than HA, sorry.
 I feel for ya, Necro's don't really come into their own until they get to level 20. There's a lot of struggle to get to 20, then things get easier. I'd suggest Curses (which work well at low levels) or Blood for now. |
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Feb 28, 2006, 11:17 PM // 23:17
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#16 |
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Jungle Guide
Join Date: Jul 2005
Location: Right behind you.
Guild: HeRo
Profession: W/Rt
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Thanks, I'll either get a run to ventaris refuge or do the mission that gives the skill i guess. I just didn't want to waste my time getting it if was over kill or not really necessary.
Another question. I've been using "Deathly Swarm" (i think thats the name) for my only attack skill because the rest of my skill bar is for making and healing minions (including a rez). Is there a better attack skill I should be using to start off with. It's not to difficult to get minions started if your with a group of other players since they do most of the killing, but when I go out solo it's kinda hard getting started since you have to kill stuff before making minions. I read another post with a guy using vamp gaze. It seems to me that both skills dont really do that much damage, i think they cap around 50 damage or so. That might be okay about half way thru the game, but in the desert and beyond I think I'm screwed if I try and go out solo. Any thoughts on this? Thanks Last edited by wsmcasey; Feb 28, 2006 at 11:20 PM // 23:20.. |
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Feb 28, 2006, 11:25 PM // 23:25
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#17 |
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Lion's Arch Merchant
Join Date: Oct 2005
Location: Colorado
Profession: N/Mo
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BOTM is to heal your minions when theyre grouped...
heal area is to make you self sufficent..its a big heal for when your clear of monsters and sacing life.. the reason why nec/mo works better than say n/r or n/e comes down to being self sufficient.. you dont need the monk holding your hand and healing you so you can do YOUR job which is to make minions. fiends are a damage dealer. in the case of topk, using fiends means you have less blockers to keep stuff off your rangers... ( case in point.. when somethings comes in range of melee on fiends the rangers are RIGHT there and are a juiceir target.. monster AI isnt the greatest but it does work that more often than not your entire ranger 5 man team will get killed THEN the fiends will get attacked.., play it safe and take horrors and minions making a melee wall.. with 5 barragers and an orders nec nothing will live long enough to do a lot of killing on your melee minions..) now in the case of oro farming, fiends are the bomb.. you want a lot of them because you have a full time tank holding a gear.. melee minions dont generally do the damage a fiend does so theyre not as useful and they also take AOE damage from whatever is hitting the tank.. Im all for coming up with new builds.. but in the cases of 90% of farming teams you have a singular job and doing THAT job to the best of your skillset is what is required... be creative on your own time when your doing a mission or testing somthing with your guild.. when your on a farm run those people in that PUG are not there to fail because you wanted to try something...nec/mo is popular and saught after in topk and oro farming because its proven to work very well.. your not the first nor will you be the last to want to try something out but I guarantee its HAS been tried and has been found wanting in comparison... you have to consider the whole team when doing stuff.. in TOPK you have ONE monk on a b/p team... this job is to heal damage from attacks .. not heal sacrifices from an ill prepared necro.. |
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Feb 28, 2006, 11:54 PM // 23:54
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#18 | |
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Forge Runner
Join Date: Jun 2005
Location: Inside
Guild: Fifteen Over Fifty [Rare]
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Quote:
This is a case, though, where personal preference rules. DS is nice because it hits three targets, and its Death based (and you should have Death maxed) Vampiric Gaze is nice also because it heals you as it damages the enemy. When you start a solo run, you'll have to learn how to specifically target certain mobs for easy corpses. Mergoyles are great for startup corpses! And VG completely cancels whatever damage they deal to you before you get the first Fiend up. Its really a preference question though. |
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Mar 01, 2006, 12:37 AM // 00:37
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#19 |
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Frost Gate Guardian
Join Date: Feb 2006
Profession: N/Me
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Some skills listed are either personal preference or directly related to the party type or number of enemies etc. In a large party you may feel it is not necessary to take direct damage skills, but rather try to keep minions alive longer. Attributes point will vary also.
In general I agree that an MM should only be raising and maintaining an army, not providing curses, blood ritual, or anything else that is not minion related. Deathly swarm is good because it is linked to death magic which you have already maxed due to your minions/fiends/horrors etc. A 3 sec casting time can be annoying. Vampiric Gaze has a shorter casting time and provides some healing, however it is linked to blood. Also note that these do not require a line of sight to the target as many other attack skills do (eg flare/fireball, arrows etc). It can be useful to hide behind a wall whilst casting these if the target is close enough. On another note - I prefer farming in SF with a SS necro compared to a renewal nuker as the necro generally understands the importance of bodies and usually tries to interrupt gnashers/binders etc immediately. It also means the party doesn't expect me to bring spinal or ritual. Spinal can also be useful to shutdown the chaos worms in ToPK. But again horses for courses, many factors such as map and group type shoudl be considered. |
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Mar 01, 2006, 01:27 AM // 01:27
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#20 | |||
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Desert Nomad
Join Date: Dec 2005
Location: Hawaii
Guild: ----- 15^50[Rare] ---- Alliance: ----- [SMS] -----
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Just to preface this some I've played MM for quite a while and very successfully imo...k enough self granduration, take my advice as you will.
Quote:
Attribute Points Left: 1 Blood Magic: 9 Death Magic: 16 Soul Reaping: 10 Healing: 8 You run much the same point spread as I do but I've found that the trade off for a second superior rune in soul reaping...dropping your life to 380 with a superior vigor...is quite worth the extra few points in either healing, blood magic or soul reaping. Also lower life resultss in less damage from saccing skills and you have 3. I've found though experimentation and experience that healing > soul reaping > blood magic is the order. Healing because heal area is a multi function skill...recover saccing, heal on the run, help out monks...very powerful and it's marginally more usefull then either Offering of Blood which is mostly unessisary but makes for flexibility and speed or the energy gain from Soul Reaping till around a heal area of >110 or 9+ in healing. Quote:
So first set I would say is a waste while your second set is very near mine. Really the last two skill slots are completely interchangeable but going with my paragraph above I've found this very useful. Bone Fiend's Bone Horror's Blood of the Master Verata's Sacrifice Heal Area Rebirth Offering of Blood Dark Bond/Infuse condition(depending on spike dmg vs condition dmg) You may ask how the last skill goes with my statment of effiecency but if you die with 50 minnions there's a problem..and I only have 380 life but I rarely die...usually because I'm watching tv, chatting and not watching the mob grouping and get to close to a mez. Also Infuse Condition negates some of the problems with Verata's Sacrifice. Gear: While energy isn't a real cocern a MM should almost always be kiting away from danger(as they are still highly useful even while running) so I say choose the armor you like the look of most. Bortak's Bone Cesta...unargueable the best MM offhand...if you are serious about MMing get it. Instead of Bortak's Claw however I suggest a +3 - 5 energy 10% all halves casting time wand as I've found better results in increased casting time with this. If anyone has any counter experimentation I'd appreciate some feedback on this as it's confsuing. I've had no skill charge summoning with my combo whiel I've yet to see one with Bortak's Claw and I tested it for over 20 min in the PvP couryard on dummies. Either way fastcasting > recharge. With the cost and the life sac and the kiting and the waiting for a body by the time you are ready to cast the next summoning spell fiend/horrors are almost always ready. -energy weapon/offhand combo for rebirth I like koles and that blue collector with absorption and +armor vs physical for dire kitting situations Quote:
Last edited by Manic Smile; Mar 01, 2006 at 02:13 AM // 02:13.. |
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